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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld Size on a Fillet Weld
- - By BridgeQc1509 Date 10-15-2016 18:08
Is the wash of a fillet weld considered weld size? I agree that where the the toe of the weld fuses at the base metal is considered weld. The fillet weld gauge is hitting the wash. Can someone give me some advice on this issue?
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 10-15-2016 22:19
No Idea what the wash is however if the profile in concave, the toe may interfere with the gage AND that method of measurement cannot be used. If only one leg is interfering, you could modify the bottom part of the gage and still maintain the throat measurement using the concave gauge.

If you are using the wrong side of the gauge, use the one for concave welds.

http://www.weldingdata.com/FilletWeldgage.htm

Gerald Austin
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-16-2016 00:14 Edited 10-16-2016 00:26
NO!!  The 'wash' is NOT part of the legitimate measurement of the leg.  If that were so I could make a 1/2" fillet out of a 5/16" when it is 'washed' up the side further even though it adds absolutely NO strength to the weld or length to the true leg.

So, with that in mind, I must respectfully disagree with the illustration as presented on using the fillet weld gauge.  The only way that that gauge, which is a 'go-no go' gauge, can tell you the leg is long enough is when there is an ever so slight gap because the leg at the toe is slightly preventing the gauge from contacting the vertical member.  Otherwise it is a matter of opinion if that weld is large enough especially if one is looking at the 'wash' and says, 'yes, there is weld under the gauge so the leg is long enough'.

Or, I could even grap the next size larger gauge and say, yes, its close enough or the wash is under the point of the gauge, that's a 5/16" fillet. 

If there is not a gap between the face of the vertical member, it isn't the proper size.  Totally speculative and open to personal judgement call.  That isn't how it should be done. 

Someone is going to say, but you are allowed to be undersized.  Yes, but only for a short amount of distance.  The rest must be the correct size. 

I will add a couple of pics to show my perspective. While looking at the pics, if you were to push the gauge on up so that the face of the gauge touches the vertical member, then you could see a slight gap on the bottom surface of the gauge.  There will be a gap between one or the other.  If not, I could make a lot of things pass for a size that they are not. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
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Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 10-16-2016 01:03
I am not sure what you are saying about the illustration. My point in the illustration is that the leg is NOT measured. Only the effective throat that equals that of a corresponding leg size.

Are you too familiar with the term "Wash". I must have been sheltered.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-16-2016 16:08 Edited 10-16-2016 16:56
I think it is helpful if the person measuring the weld size remembers the weld size is the leg dimension of the largest inscribed isosceles right triangle. The extent of concavity is not material to the determination of weld size if one remembers the definition. Granted, if the legs of the concave fillet weld are really long, measuring the fillet weld throat is made more difficult, but not insurmountable. No one said being a welding inspector was easy. A little ingenuity goes a long way in doing our work. As mentioned,  one can trim the fillet gage or make a fillet gage by trimming a piece of metal pallet strapping to size.

The wash? What the hell is that? I thought we were suppose to be professionals and represent the best of the best. Ignorance is still shining through. CWI, I doubt it, so I guess we have to give the man a little windage. 

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-16-2016 22:00
I agree, wash??? I'm lost as a fart in a tornado on that one. Also agree that you could speedily pour in a fillet weld and technically be 5/16" on the weld size but end up with a very concave weld. Have seen this many times. Looks like they smeared silicone in the corner with their thumb. Technically 5/16" but concavity in the throat is off the charts, think this is a factor that would fail a weld is it not?

My fillet gauges have a line for certain size welds. The cutout or radius part from my understanding does not count and "filling up the gauge" is not the correct way to read it. I'm no inspector but have dealt with plenty and have had some say, "You need to fill up the gauge here" and others tell me that if an inspector tells me that they are off their nut.

I can only guess that "wash" might mean that you're dragging the pool either up or to the side of the base metal but not pausing to let it fill in leaving a highly concave weld?

A certain size weld, ideally would have a mathematically proven dimension across the face(Pythagorean Theorem). 5/16" vertically, 5/16" horizontally would give a dimension across the face.

Ok, I've rambled on enough with my amateurish inspector knowledge. Wash, have to remember that one.
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 11-03-2016 22:45
So I'll just clarify   "Wash pass" is actually defined in AWS 3.0 as a "nonstandard term used for a cosmetic weld pass or smoothing pass".

In GTAW  a wash pass is often an autogenous cover pass used to smooth out fillets or over fill.

Beyond a go no-go of fillet gauges you can use a angle block and calipers or depth mic to always precisely measure a fillet weld to it's center. Admitedly it only practically works on things right at 90 degrees.   I always designed the double fillet gauges to confirm weld size if there was wash pass or lots of concavity issues.  Then again I would rather they just put in enough fill the first time.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 11-03-2016 22:46
I'll just play the smart donkey and say that wash pass is defined in AWS 3.0

It's not a standard term but I didn't think it was that unheard of?
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-03-2016 23:00
I'll play the dumb donkey, Is "Wash" ever referred to as a part of the weld ??

Wash Pass, yes is defined but in the context of the question it doesn't appear to apply.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld Size on a Fillet Weld

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