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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Qualifying Unlisted Materials
- - By CC4846 (*) Date 09-28-2019 20:42
Good afternoon experts,

    We have a situation where we need to qualify a procedure for welding AISI 8622 "modified" to A514. I don't know what the modified means, I asked the manufacturer of the AISI 8622 to provide material test records so we know what the chemical constituents are, still waiting for them.  AWS D1.6 considers AISI 8622 as an unlisted material. The engineer approved the use of AWS D1.6 or AWS B2.1 for qualification of this procedure, B2.1 doesn't recognize AISI 8622 either. I understand that AISI steels are typically unlisted because their mechanical properties are not consistent due to the condition of the material not being a concern in the AISI classification system. The AISI parts are forged hooks. My thought is to use the hooks themselves for the test coupons by machining them down into test "plates". The problem is that the hooks are nowhere near large enough to machine into the procedure test coupon sizes dictated in the codes. I am looking for some sage advice on how to go about getting this procedure qualified.

Thanks for the advice.
Parent - - By CC4846 (*) Date 10-01-2019 12:37
Nothing? No thoughts?
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-01-2019 16:58
So you've got a forged hook, that you don't know the chemical and physical properties of, and you want to qualify an AWS compliant welding procedure...
There's also questions around whether or not multiple hooks will have the same properties, even if you find the info on one hook...
By "forged hook", I'm thinking some sort of lifting device.
And through your need to qualify a procedure, I'm thinking you want to weld on multiples of these for use or sale.
It would be hard to describe a case with more liability concerns.
I suggest a re-engineering of the product you need, either without welding or at least using materials with reliable traceability.

Just saying...
Parent - - By CC4846 (*) Date 10-01-2019 18:08
The hooks are manufactured to be welded, the manufacturer recommends welding with A5.4 E312-16 SMAW. They say that they sell thousands of these and they are all welded in place. Is there any provision or precedent for using smaller than specified procedure qualification coupons in a situation such as this, where it is not possible to obtain coupons that meet the specified size?

Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-01-2019 18:50
The following is provisions in AWS B2.1 : 2014, which allow you to make up your own "Special Test Weldment" PQRs and acceptance criteria.
Attachment: AWSB2.docx (112k)
Parent - - By CC4846 (*) Date 10-02-2019 20:16
Tim,  I did look into this provision on B2.1 previously. 4.3.6 Special test weldments may be used for procedure qualification, when permitted by the referencing document, and shall be governed by the limits on qualification variables given in 4.14, procedure qualification variables. The term referencing document is what threw me off. on page 2 of B2.1 Referencing Document is defined as :The fabrication code, specification, contract document, or internal document such as quality control or quality assurance manuals that invokes this specification. The referencing document would be AWS D1.6, and D1.6 does not make provisions for a special test weldment. Or am I missing something? It certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-03-2019 11:54
AWS Codes and Specifications detail minimum requirements to be followed in the absence of over-riding Specifications. By this I mean that a large amount of latitude is given to the "Engineer" or "Technical Authority", in which they may choose to adapt or change any code requirement, in any way they see fit, as long as they are willing to assume responsibility for their decisions, and such decisions are agreed to between contract parties in writing (Referencing Document) prior to being adopted.
In your case, a "Referencing Document" could be a written Inspection and Testing plan that details the qualification process that has been approved by the "Engineer". Typically, this document would then be submitted to the Customer for rejection/approval.
When Customer approval is not at all practical, say for instance you're selling multiple products to different Customers without contract documents, then the Manufacturer needs to clearly understand the liabilities involved when claiming Code compliance. In this case, the Manufacturer's internal engineering specification and/or inspection & testing plan is the referencing document.

Parent - By CC4846 (*) Date 10-04-2019 10:00
Tim, thank you for the great reply. I was also thinking of asking the engineer to concider making a deviation from the code criteria and allow an alternate coupon size for procedure qualification. I'll bring it up to the engineer and let him make the call.

Thanks for the advice.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Qualifying Unlisted Materials

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