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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Butt weld on Tee Joint
- - By Student Date 10-01-2019 10:35
hy! I am suppose do a CJP butt weld to join a thicker plate of 64mm to a thinner plate (24mm) which are in Tee Joint configuration. Can we do this type of welding?
Parent - - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-01-2019 13:37
No such thing as a 'Butt Weld'.

CJP in a T-Joint is possible.

What does the print say and what code are you welding to?
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 10-08-2019 18:31
Well, I think you might want to re-think that. CJP=AKA butt weld, butt joint, as used in API, ASME, AWS and multiple other COC's.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-08-2019 18:56
Call it a Butt Joint of unequal thicknesses

Call it a Tee Joint

Call it a groove weld if it is CJP

To answer the OP's question

In many cases, yes it can be done.   However there are factors involving material type and purpose that may have some effect on determining and qualifying.
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 10-08-2019 19:10
Okay now I am confused, was the OP asking if a CJP weld could be done in a corner joint or was he asking if a CJP weld be done in a Butt joint with 2 different material thicknesses?
Parent - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-08-2019 19:16
"which are in Tee Joint configuration"

I was thinking along the lines of AWS TC-U4a configuration.
Parent - - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-08-2019 19:12 Edited 10-08-2019 19:18
Hammered into me during trade school many years ago and reinforced on several structural jobs both as a welder and as an inspector:

Butt Joint, Tee Joint, Lap Joint, Corner Joint

which would then be welded with a:

Fillet Weld or Groove Weld (CJP or PJP) (Butt Joint would only be a Groove Weld)

Also, AWS considers a 'butt weld' as a nonstandard term (per A3.0) for a weld in a butt joint.
Parent - By LToca85 (**) Date 10-08-2019 19:27
I was thinking TC-U4a aswell because we have a CJP in the shop with that detail in the shop right now lol

But I agree Butt Joint, Tee Joint, Lap Joint, Etc then Fillet weld or Groove weld either CJP or PJP
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 10-09-2019 18:32
Might be a "non-standard" term in AWS but standard in other codes as mentioned in earlier post. Not a hill to die on though. Just wanted to challenge your thinking a little.
Parent - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-10-2019 15:03
Understood. I appreciate the enlightenment. As I mentioned, we were always corrected in Trade School and at several shops I worked at, Butt Joint with a groove weld.

I will have to refrain from stating its non-existence as to not upset the natives. :lol:
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-28-2019 18:59
Proper terminology. Butt joint with a groove weld.

Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-09-2019 12:46
If the 64mm material is the one receiving the bevel, you should consider the probability of Lamellar Tearing.

Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-09-2019 22:32

For a butt weld joining two members having
different thicknesses at the weld, t is the thinner of these
two thicknesses. If a full penetration weld includes a fillet
weld, the thickness of the throat of the fillet shall be included
in t .

API 1104

To weld the test joint for butt welds, two pipe nipples
shall be joined, following all the details of the procedure

API 650 butt-weld: A weld placed in a groove between
two abutting members. Grooves may be square, V-shaped
(single or double), or U-shaped (single or double), or they
may be either single or double beveled.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-09-2019 23:32
Shane, my good friend, quoting API on an AWS forum? :yell:

Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-10-2019 10:40
Yeah, I know - not politically correct.
Just responding to the comment " No such thing as a 'Butt Weld'."
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-10-2019 11:46
Parent - - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-10-2019 14:56
Three references to 'butt weld' in D1.1:2015 and one of them is the above posted definition of it being a non-standard term.

I am amazed at the lengths to find evidence that I mis-spoke. Clearly there is a mountain of it showing the existence of butt welds. And yet, it isn't even relevant to the OP's post considering it was a Tee Joint with a groove weld.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-10-2019 16:52
I was just having fun with Al.

I don’t even think you misspoke :)

Totally not meaning to give you a hard time at all.

D1 misspoke according to its own style guide, and that’s what I was pointing out.
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 10-10-2019 19:24
Sorry Steelslinger, not trying to get under your skin. Like I said in my earlier post. Not hill to die on, but wanted to enlighten you a little. My point is that it is a standard term used by a number of other codes and standards. I guess when you corrected the OP'er we tried to bring some clarity. No offence intended.
Parent - By Steelslinger (**) Date 10-10-2019 19:54
No worries guys no offense taken.

And I do appreciate the enlightenment on it.

Sometimes I need to heed the little hesitation at hitting Post on a snarky response.
Parent - - By Shivarama Date 10-15-2019 04:38
In response to Mr.Shane Feder response, I would like to clarify that, it is NOT two different thicknesses. The material is round solid wire (Eg-8.5 mm), would like to butt weld the two ends of the different wires of same diameters. Pls note that, material is SAE 9254 (Chrome-Silicon alloy steel)

In this regard, do you think forming grooves between two wire ends will be best idea for better welding.

Also, after welding, how to maintain the hardness on lower side, presently it is increasing, which causes brittle fracture during wire drawing for further diameter reduction.

Thank you,
With regards,
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-15-2019 11:55
I never replied to your post.
Either you have hijacked someone else's post or there is a "glitch" in the system on your post,
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-11-2019 13:19
There are too many instances where nonstandard terms "sneak" into the standard because as we read through the draft, we don't instinctively recognize those instances where the nonstandard term pops up. We hear it so often we don't even recognize it.

Example; How often do we hear the term "weld puddle" used? It was recently included in a "guide" that I reviewed and I didn't notice it until it was published! Damn, it got by me. Goes to prove we aren't infallible.

Just because it appears in a standard doesn’t mean it is a proper or standard term.

Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-12-2019 10:51
I meant no offense by my post.
Purely supporting JH in his response that it is used in many other codes/standards.
My good mate Al gets very cranky when non-standard terms get into the conversation but we all need to consider the bigger picture.
Yes, it is an AWS forum and " Butt Weld" may be a non-standard term.
However this forum is used by people all over the world and that should be taken in to consideration.
I have previously worked with ASME, AWS, API, AS (Australian), JIS (Japanese),ISO (European), BS (British) and GBT (Chinese) codes/standards and the chances of the terminology of all those codes/standards aligning is less than zero.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-12-2019 11:00
Refer to the OP's original question - totally inappropriate question.
The OP should not be asking how to weld a major structural joint on an internet forum.
Tim Garys response regarding lamellar tearing explains a part of my concerns but where are the experienced / knowledgeable / qualified people who should be telling the OP what he can and cannot do ?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-12-2019 12:57
Shane, didn't you notice the :yell:? I agree that it isn't a hill to die on. I was just poking the bear with a sharp stick!:grin:

Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-13-2019 09:25
As you have been doing for how many years now ? :grin::grin:
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-28-2019 19:01
I will jump in and take a poke as well. :grin:

Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Butt weld on Tee Joint

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