7018 vertical

Date 03-25-2007 03:26

7018 vertical is a little tricky at first but once you get used to it you will love running it vertical. Every type of rod burns different and every machine burns a little different. Start your rod and get a small puddle going then carry your puddle from side to side holding on each side long enough to fill in any undercut and to tie in to your parent metal good. There are several ways to run your rod depending on pipe, structural, and the type of material and thickness you are welding. Keep your hand steady and watch your puddle. If it starts to drip and get high in the middle you need to turn your heat down and/or go a little faster. If it is not tieing in good you may need to turn your heat up. Im sure these guys on here can give some more and better advise but this is my reply for you. Good luck.

By gmnidrgn17 Date 03-25-2007 04:22

thank you

By cmays

Date 03-25-2007 03:47

Since you are welding 5/8 to 1/4 youll need to stay on the thicker side for a little longer before bleeding your puddle over to the thinner side then back again. If you have youre heat set right you should keep your rod angle a hair under perpendicular a well

By gmnidrgn17 Date 03-25-2007 04:22

thanks

By 2003440 (**)

Date 03-25-2007 04:43 Edited 03-29-2007 04:20

I think alot of guys think that if you do not burn hot you are going to end up with lack of penetration i run at 110 or less and tie into the parent metal no problem i am not saying a guy has to run cold i guess if you can run hot and fast good for you.

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 03-25-2007 06:01

First, I hope you are making sure your rods are dry. Second, lots of manipulation, holding about 2/3 of the time on the thicker member. The lead angle is fairly forgiving with 7018, but the less you manipulate the more you're going to have to grind.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 03-26-2007 04:53

Your amperage may be too high. Even on thick plate, I only run about 92-96.

By makeithot (***)

Date 03-26-2007 18:12

As it has been mentioned above you will need to hold a second or two longer on the thicker material as the piece gets hot your weld will easily flow to the thinner stock. For myself I like to run vertical welds hot, keep your arc close(short) if you have a dig or arc force on your machine turn it down to around 30 or off completely. The root pass goes staight up with no whipping, fill and cap are weaved. The secret to a nice smooth weld is to not try and move up to fast the weave is more straight across then zig-zag as you progress up. The amps (Heat) should be hot enough so that as you pause on one side the other side does not cool down past a cherry red colour. If it turns black you have paused to long our your heat is to low. For a 1/8 7018 0n my machine I set at 125amps for root and fill pass and 130-135 for the cap depending on how wide I want it. I have always found that each machine setting is always a little different so for setting your machine the colour changes in the puddle is the only way. depending on the size of your piece and the weld you may not need to turn up the heat for the cap as there will be enough stored heat in the material. Go hot or go home I always say ,yuke yuke.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 03-28-2007 00:44

I am NOT trying to be smart, so don't take this the wrong way. You really do run 1/8" lh uphill at130? Did you mean to say 5/32? I try and keep a constant roundish puddle glowing behind my arc. On some instances I weave like you talk about, but not on a code weld. I'm just curious man, "don't hate", (My 14 year old cousin is teaching me how to talk "cooler").......he's pretty good with the ladies.

By Molten Metal (**)

Date 03-28-2007 01:15

I tried 7018 1/8" vert up today on some 3/8" mild steel at 90/95/100 and then 120 amps.I am not good at all yet but I couldnt do anything with the ampres above 100 and 120 was WAY to hot.I get a bunch of slag and pile-up in the middle,or, if I get it to look good in the middle I end up with undercut on the toe lines.I will keep on plugging along .Iv'tried weaving,Z-style,Zaging ,straight and everything in between.I am using a Miller Bobcat 250 and Hobart 418 (their 7018).Any advice on speed/pattern and the like will be greatly appriciated.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-28-2007 01:49

I tell my beginning students to start in the range of 100 -120 and dig control 0-5 for 1/8 E7018

I prefer stringers at 105 -110 depending on the power supply. My observation is that inverters do SMAW just a hair cooler, so a slightly higher setting may be used... We are dong this right now in my program and my Synchrowave 250's like about 105 but the Dynasty 300 will run verts pretty well up as high as 125.

Weave beads have a little wider sweet spot than stringers.

I think it is a little easier to read the puddle at the lower end of the range.

By 2003440 (**)

Date 03-28-2007 02:07

It seems to me at 130s a guy would have to go damn fast at that heat with 1/8 but that is just me,hey sourdough what do you do on pipe caps as far as weave goes i know you are a pipe guru just curious.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-28-2007 03:23 Edited 03-29-2007 06:59

Hi All!!!

Sounds like you're getting some good advice gmnidrgn17!!!

I could'nt help but reminisce of my days as a welding apprentice at General Dynamics Electric Boat Division's "Rotten" Groton, CT. Exclusively Submarines only - Shipyard...

E8018M and E11018M was the most used SMAW filler when we were building the SSN688 - "Los Angeles" Class platform fast attack submarines and the SSBN726 - "Ohio" Trident design Class platform Fleet Ballistic Missile firing submarines, way back in the late seventies through the early eighties...

Believe me folks there was a tremendous amount of welding going on three shifts/7days for every one of those years so, one could only imagine how much welding was going on during the heydays of WWII and how much welding was going on when aircraft carriers were being built a heck of alot faster and in greater numbers than when we construct a carrier today for obvious reason of course!!!

The point I'm trying to make here is, when my peers and myself were apprentices, we learned in very short amount of time that in order to advance from let's say 3rd step apprentice to sixth step... One would have to deposit a certain amount of weld deposit that would consistently pass NDT and show a steady improvement in speed/efficiency... Having said that, we realized, well at least the ones who advanced - that we had to set our machines at greater amps, coupled with faster travel speeds in order to do become Mechanics...

That is why I was able to advance quite quickly through the steps to get to 3rd class mechanic, al the way up to 1st class mechanic with relative ease... Of course there were other factors involved but that's not we're talking about here... We're talking about "burning rod at some heavy heat like 1/8" dia rod @ 130 amps DCRP and 5/32" @ 145-150 amps!!! Now that's BURNIN ROD!!! And brother - you better be able to move that rod or you're done!!! It was "SCHOOL'S OUT SON!!! GET GOING ON THOSE WELDS OR YOU'RE GOING HOME - PERIOD!!!"

So we did, and got REAL GOOD at it whereby if we were in a ballast or NFO, AUX Fuel, Missile gas or any of the other tanks inside the subs... Welding the tubes or the Hulls either from the inside or outside, we got to where we were able to burn thirty to forty lbs. of rod per shift sometimes, and that's with having to deal with being able to weld with 5 lbs. at a time because we were only allowed to have 5 lbs. due to "moisture control" for the electrodes...

Otherwise we would've easily been able to weld in excess of fifty lbs. per shift if we did'nt have to constantly climb in and out of the subs in order to resupply @ 5lbs, at a time!!! I'd say we would lose at least 2hrs daily because we had to climb in and out in order to get more "Fresh Rod!!! Back in those days I could do it on a daily basis but today, it's NOT going to happen because I'm getting too old to keep up with the younger, what they - the mechanics used to call us: "Cracker Jack" "rod burners!!!"

I do wonder as to whether or not the "Cracker Jack's" of today can still produce on a daily basis like the ones I worked with or whether or not my generation could "hold a candle" to the men and mostly Women of the WWII era??? Hmmm - Interesting thought but, not always easy to compare if one considers the various factors involved and the differences of each era.

Anywho, "Burn-em Hot Son!!!" "Otherwise do'nt let the door hit you in the you know where on the way out the door!!" is what I always hear in me head when I've got a "gravy" job these days, and I'm still able to weld around thirty lbs. or so. Not too bad for an "Old Fart!!!" This thread brings back a bunch of fun memories like the time we tied a pipefitter/hangerbanger to a missile tube just before lunch break, and Admiral Hymie Rickover spotted him tied to the tube while touring the USS Michigan (Keel was already laid so yes, the submarine in construction did already have a name) and asked: "Son? Just what in the hell is going on here?" and Bill answered "Sir! I'm just straightening out my back here during my lunch break - Sir!!"... The Admiral shot back and said to Bill: "This is no place for physical therapy Son!!! We Build Sbmarines Here Son!!!"

Needless to say, Bill got a week off with pay in order for him to recieve the physical therapy he desparately needed - at the proper facility:):):) Everyday that following week, Bill was at the bar wishing us well as we departed the bar (Elfie's with "Nellie" as bartender) to walk into the yard!!! There are so many more from where that one came from but I'll just leave you with that one - I still LOL when I remember that evening!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 03-28-2007 13:10

I "grew up" doing pressure hull and non-pressure hull cuts on older subs. 11018M is a hot burning rod, if the last 3 inches aren't glowing neon then you're gonna do a lot of grinding. 7018 isn't much different, the hotter it is the flatter the finish. I see a lot of guys make the mistake of cranking down the amperage on vertical passes, and they get to be expert grinders.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-29-2007 06:44

Hey BozakTwo1!
I did a lot of work on the older subs myself when I was a "squid" but never did I burn as much rod until I got out of the Navy! It was 1976 when I first started to work for EB... I went to C1 welding school, worked on quite a few boats also beforehand but as far as EB was concerned, it did'nt mean any special treatment for me as far as starting wages went because they started me out as only a sixth step apprentice from a 4955-56 welder in the USN - Go Figure!!!

I think that you'll find a few ex - Navy welders here in the forum... The first one I met here was "Pipewelder1999". There are a few others but Ica'nt remember all of their names so, why do'nt the rest of the "crew" come out and give BozakTwo1 a real "Weldcome" to the forum from all of the "Turd Chasers" in here!!!;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 03-30-2007 11:50

Henry,

Why thank you, kind sir. I have a feeling I have not yet begun to learn, and as a recently hired QA manager for a smallish fab shop, I will be on here asking a never-ending stream of newbie questions! I'll prolly have more of those little grey diamonds next to me soon...

By Sourdough (****)

Date 03-28-2007 19:13

92, after a root hot and fill. Even on the bottom, man. It looks like a sterling silver bracelet.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-29-2007 06:52

Hey Sourdough!

Just curious but, I was wondering what your machine's closed circuit or output voltage is about when you're welding because even on a engine driven machine, 92 amps seems a bit low unless your CCV is higher than an inverter or transformer/rectifier type power source. Just a hunch but, I'd say your machine is pushing out more voltage than the inverter type or transformer/rectifier power sources that most folks use which is known to occurr and normal on some engine drives.

Respectfully,
Henry

By Sourdough (****)

Date 03-30-2007 01:28

Could be, but I run everything on the soft side, ( chopper tech ).

By cmays

Date 04-01-2007 01:24

SD, Thats 92-96 with 3/32 right? Im asuming thats what you meant wasnt clear though. After stringer pass Ill run a hot pass generally in that range with 3/32 low high then fill will depend on the pipe shcedule and procedure. Thought that may be why some thought that was cold for 1/8.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 04-02-2007 00:09

1/8".

By makeithot (***)

Date 03-30-2007 00:59

130 on the cap if the material is 1/2" or better in thickness. would not be this hot on a smaller piece. I do have to say yes I do and can run that 1/8" up hill at 130 amps.That was how I was taught by an old narly hand years ago, He could run it even hotter then that while smoking a big cigar and holding a beer in one hand.

By gmnidrgn17 Date 03-31-2007 03:10

I didn't take your remark as being smart. No, I don't run my verts at 130. I run my flats horizontals, and sometimes overheads at 125 maximum. My verts are usually between 105 and 115, depending on the machine being used and the electrode.

By litchko (*)

Date 03-29-2007 02:05

I run 7018 1/8"@125-130amps rod angle @about 5to10 degrees.Manny beginners see their hot slag running down and PANIC after welding for some time you'll be able to tell the difference between your molting metal and your hot slag.Keep practing you'll get it.

By turbolaser (**)

Date 03-30-2007 00:11

I run 1/8" at 130 amps regardless of position and 5/32" at 150 amps. Every 6 months my company makes us retest 6g 6" sch 160 45 bevel 1/8"land and gap. 6010 root 7018 fill/cap. Makes me laugh when 3/4 of the guys testing with me take 8 hours and 2 grinding wheels to complete the joint, I bust on these guys all the time for this, tell them they passed their grinding certs and maybe someday they'll pass the weld test. Takes me about 2 hours and for a half hour of that I sit there letting the pipe cool some for my cap. Most of the guys at my shop won't run anything greater then 3/32 vert unless the boss demands it, then they break out that grinding cert to make it look acceptable, lol. All I can say is practice untill you get the hang of it.

By aevald

Date 03-30-2007 01:23 Edited 03-30-2007 01:25

Hello All, I have sat back on this one to kind of see where it might end up. In the process I have seen numerous suggestions and statements giving specific amp settings for various diameter rods. My one comment on these suggestions and settings would be that unless the user has calibrated test equipment to compare these against established standards they may mean very little. Here is an example to show my point: a local mill in my area uses 575 volt, 3 phase power, the machines they have are a dial type rheostat adjust without meters, 1/8" E7018 runs vertical up really well at around 60 to 65 amps on these machines. In my shop, at the school, we have similar type machines, our input power is 230 volt, 3 phase, to get the same type and diameter of rod to burn in a similar fashion as those at the mill I need to run around 125 to 130 amps. Likely, if I had put test equipment on these two machines and made note of the readings, they would have been very close to one another, yet, due to the difference in input voltages and possibly other small nuances, I couldn't rely on going strictly by the numbers on the dial to set the amperage correctly. Even the load on the power grid that you are getting your power from can change with the time of day and the amount of use by others on the grid, these load changes can change available voltages and change machine performance.
A person has to develope a mental picture of puddle characteristics when the heat is right and also a sense of feel for the sound of the arc. Certainly different rod manufacturer's rods will have some distinct character differences, so you need to take that into consideration. Some will have a very dark slag, others will be lighter by shades and can be brown, tan, gray or black. Some slag will peel up behind the puddle as the weld progresses when the heat, angle, travel, arc length, and other variables are just right. Some slags won't peel up regardless of any changes that you make, generally these are the rods that most welders tend to shun and hate and in some cases refuse to weld with.
In many ways the best way to determine amp settings is by trial and error. If you have a good technique, proper rod angle, travel speed, arc length, and rod manipulation or not, then the only other real variable will be the amperage or possibly the inductance, or arc force, or whatever the particular machine manufacturer is referring to. By trying different amperages without modifying anything else you'll be able to get the beads you're looking for. If you do decide to try other things than just amperage adjustment, be careful not to change more than one thing at a time, as this could make the hunt for that really great weld a bit harder to come by. Just a few more thoughts to ponder. Regards, aevald

By ZCat

Date 04-01-2007 04:36

Excellent post, aevald. I generally look at it like this. If the rod is sticking, it's too cold. If it's throwing buckshot everywhere, it's too hot. Try to get it somewhere in between the two. :-)

By dasimonds (**)

Date 04-01-2007 05:03

Right on! The setting on the knob is nothing more than a place to start, as every machine is different.
Dale Simonds

By NWPAwelder (**)

Date 04-05-2007 21:00

I too would have to agree that the dial setting is just a starting point. (130 to 135 amps normally in all positions for me when running 7018-1/8") Generally I will tweak my setting until I find that sweet spot that you can readily identify after burning a lot of rod and being familiar with the machine you are using. Personally, I love to use my SA 200 Pipeliner(1963 Red face), but have welded using Lincoln buzz boxes up to big Miller shop units and small engine driven alternating units.
All in all, you just have to get the "feel" for it and know what to look for regardless of the process being used.
By the way, are there any others on here that live/work in the North East U.S.?
Keep practicing and eventually it will come to you. Experience is the best teacher.

By litchko (*)

Date 04-07-2007 01:41

I work and live in N.Y.(south of Albany,N.Y)

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 04-07-2007 04:04

New Joisey
Bill

By 357max

Date 04-07-2007 15:32

Way back in ancient history AWS D1.1 had 3/16" 7018 as an all position prequalified procedure. A very large contractor had qualified a procedure with 18" length 7 / 32" E7018 all position on 1 /2 " and thicker, horizontal, vertical and overhead groove and fillet welds.
Note the manufacturers of 7018 electrodes, they usually have three or four different AWS classification 7018s. ie Super 18, Super Duper 18 and Really Super Duper 18 and maybe a Really, Really Super Duper 18. They have different arc and weld pool/puddle fluidity characteristics. Usually the Really, Really Super Duper 18 is the most weldable and controllable out of position. The Super 18 would be highest iron powder for maximum fluidity for flat and horizontal groove welds. Check out/weld out a sample packet of each type.
7018 likes high Open Circuit Voltages. Engine Drive genenerators/alternators with dual controls for range and fine current adjustment should have the range set as low as possible and the fine current as high as possible for the highest Open Circuit Voltage for an welding amperage value. For an amperage value, use/check Open Circuit Voltage with a DC voltmeter.
The shop machines with "DIG, ARC FORCE or ARC FORCE CONTROL" on stick welding should limit the control setting to less than 60% on the control with 7018s. Set the main amperage control for the arc and penetration characteristic desired (now leave it alone!) and then fine tune the arc with the ARC CONTROL only.
On coupon welding watch for Magnetic Arc Blow when welding near the end of a plate, especially overhead and vertical welding. A ten foot length of weld cable with two work clamps can be used to move the concentration of magnetic arc force away from the end of plates. And of course hold a short tight arc.

By ZCat

Date 04-07-2007 21:19

I'd really like to watch somebody weld 7/32 7018 on overhead or vertical 1/2" plate.

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 04-07-2007 23:00 Edited 04-08-2007 00:54

The Chicago Bridge and Iron field welders often do it on the field welded waterspheroids. (Up-Hill)

But I've only seen it on 1 inch and thicker plate. They also cheat, because the radiography locations are pre-marked, and I saw them switch to 5/32 for that segment!

By nino.gaza Date 05-12-2008 07:42

Hi All,

Kindly advice if we can use E8018 electrode in substitution for E7018 without doing any Procedure Qualification Testing??? Also, what if the required electrode in the Welding Procedure is E8018, but the available electrode on site is E8018-B2, I know there is a difference in chemical contents for this electrode, but do we need to prequalify it as well??? Thanks to all.