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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Krypton and or Xenon as a shielding gas?
- - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-05-2007 14:00
Hello Everyone and Anyone,
I am wondering if anyone in this vast forum has ever heard of Krypton or Xenon being used as a shielding gas for either GTAW or GMAW.
any info or direction to someone who would know would be great.

Thank you for your time
Clif
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 14:42
Oh I'm sure there is some research out there dealing with heavier inert gases. And my guess would be that chemically, as inerts, they would respond as Argon does. But considering that, as my guess would have it, they are probably way more expensive, why bother?
I might go the other way. Try Neon. It would come at a more resonable price and you could save money on shop lighting.
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-05-2007 15:08
Your right in that they would be more expensive, without a doubt. The reason im wondering about these 2 is how much heavier they are over other inert gasses. My original train of thought was that because both act more like a dense liquid than a gas, mabey they would work for say welding titanium or other reactive alloys that usuly require a purge box or trailing gas setup.

Thanks for the reply,
Clif
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 16:00
I understand. Its a thought. But the need for trailing shields in Ti is not based upon a weight limitation of Ar but the fact that Ti must cool to a quite low temp before being exposed to the atmosphere. Even with heavier gases you would still need a trailing shield or a box.
You wouldn't, in my opinion, be able to rely upon the heavy gas laying on the weld until cool enough (even in deep grooves which are rare for Ti). Heat convection from the welding process will always cause a stir.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 17:35
Cost my good friend. The cost of using either gas would be between $1000 and $5000 per hour based on a flow rate of 20 to 25 cfh.

Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 19:07
WOW!!!
Thats some alloy that can justify that cost.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-05-2007 19:53
Yeah,  the guys at NASA use it to run thier air grinders  :)
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 20:00
Lawrence, I think you might be sniffing some of that stuff....LOL.:-)
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 11-05-2007 21:17
Now thats dam funny!!!! lol
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-05-2007 19:59
Wow is right, and there goes that idea.
I had figured they would be expensive, but not that expensive.
Either way, thank you both for entertaining a random idea of mine, Im sure ill think of more as time goes on.

thanks again,
  Clif
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-05-2007 22:51
The costs cited are somewhat dated, but it gives you a little better idea on the relative cost:

Argon: $0.05 per cubic foot
Helium:  $0.13 per cubic foot
Neon: $4.00 per cubic foot
Krypton: $20.00 per cubic foot
Xenon: $250.00 per cubic foot

Consider the flow rates are influenced by the gas density, i.e., lighter gases (helium) require higher flow rates than denser gases.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-06-2007 00:30 Edited 11-06-2007 00:33
Ahh, and the price is due mostly to cost of seperation im guessing?

Well, along the same topic... does anyone have any idea what adding either Neon, Krypton, or Xenon would do to the arc or puddle?
Im betting there would be some intresting colors, but would there be any useful effects?
These are the things that my welding textbooks didnt cover that ive been wondering about.

The ever curious -Clif
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Krypton and or Xenon as a shielding gas?

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