Miller Elite

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 16:42

Interesting that you asked!!!
I have both the Miller Elite "Big Window" series hood. and the Hornell Speedglass 9000X...
I agree with your observations, and as an addition to your comments, I would like to offer some of my own...

First I'll start with the Miller Elite... I like the hood as it is comfortable in fit, cool looks, and a larger viewing area than the Hornell Speedglass... On the downside, the Miller does'nt have the option of installing a fresh- air type PPE system that the particular model Hornell hood has as a standard feature, so if this is really important to you as it is for me since I need to take extra precautions due to my intentionally weakened immune system, then especially in certain confined space situations are concerned or where welding exposes me to excessive amounts of harmful fumes, I will opt to use the Speedglass system.

I use the Speedglass system for overhead welding sometimes when in confined spaces or poorly ventilated areas also because it does'nt have the warning, or recommendation, and has more sensors connected to the auto-darkening lens in order to protect your eyes from inadvertantly shutting off during overhead welding operations. The downside of this system is that the parts, and filters are expensive to replace when compared to the Miller Elite.

As far as all of the auto-darkening hood systems are concerned, one must be extra vigilant in maintain them no matter what brand or model because they are more complicated than the traditional welding hoods... The batteries need to be constantly checked for proper operation of the sensors which help operate the auto- darkening lense in a safe manner... Which reminds me that I need to purchase some more batteries for both hoods!!! ;)

On the Hornell Speedglass, and other systems which have a "fresh air" system built in to the hood, or come as a standard component which can optionally removed, it is important that the batteries are properly charged, and the PPE air filters replaced when necessary for optimal, safe operation...

If you have the same Hornell Speedglass system as I do, then you already know this, so I apologize if you read this as if I'm giving you a lecture as it is also my intent when writing - to pass on this information to others that may not be aware of the complexity, and the considerable expense one might have to incurr if they are looking into purchasing some of these PPE systems for themselves.

In summary, I use my traditional shipyard "Short hood" for most of the welding I do these days unless I'm either required to do alot of tacking, or alot of overhead welding where my Hornell Speedglass would offer more protection from the fumes than my old reliable short hood which quite frankly does'nt offer that much protection, and is designed for access into some tight spots where some protection is necessary but more importantly, the ability to stick one's head as near as possible towards the joint, or "mirror welding" is of significantly greater importance...

I also have a hood that attaches to my hard hat to use where required...Bottom line is it all comes down to safety, the specific application & situation, preference, and common sense in choosing the optimal type of welding hood. So with that being said, I hope I helped you and others out with sharing some of my own experiences, and preferences with different types of welding hoods. :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By dan 14

Date 12-26-2007 17:17

thanks for the info. I use a regular hood most of the time too. my dad has double vision glasses and likes a large view and he thinks the auto hood are cool so I thought I would give him one

By awill4x4 (**)

Date 12-26-2007 22:00

Dan, I don't have any experience with the Speedglas so I can't compare it. I do however use a Saf Eurolux Jet Advance helmet here in Australia that I am very happy with, so happy in fact, I bought 2, 1 for work 1 for home.
I've been using this helmet since early May and is made in the same factory that the Miller ones are made in, so they are identical in operation (unfortunately not the same colours as the Miller) to the New Digital Miller Elite only released in the last month so all the info I give you here is applicable to the new digital Elite.
They come in 4 modes: welding, cutting, grinding and X mode and will give you a range of shades running from 4 in grinding through to 5-13 in the cutting and welding modes, X mode is 9-13.
I do a lot of low amp Tig work so I find it very useful to use a shade lower than 9 at times so I just go into the cutting mode (5-9) and use the lower levels.
X mode is interesting in that it is only triggered by the electro magnetic field of the arc so is useful for outside welding when bright sunlight would normally trigger the helmet. All the setting are digital led's with all the features of sensitivity and delay you would expect to get in a top line helmet.
The controls are placed in bottom part of the helmet cassette and are easy to use. One thing I don't like is having to remember to turn it on if you haven't been welding for a while, I've been caught a number of times starting the arc and getting a bright light on shade 4 (default).
If this happens, it's easy to remove a glove and turn it on without removing the helmet or even tilting the helmet up.
I've been using an old Esab Eyetech auto helmet for the last 10 years and this helmet is so much nicer and much more comfortable as well.
One thing to be aware of is, there is some adjustment on the helmet where the head band connects to the helmet which allows you to set the helmet either close to or further away from you face. It has 3 positions but it's only plastic and I've found the centre position isn't supported as well as the other 2 positions and it broke apart. It was replaced under warranty but now I only use the end positions not the centre one and make sure that it is locked into position (couple of plastic tangs) securely so it can't turn and rip itself apart as it did previously.
Regards Andrew from Oz.

By dan 14

Date 12-26-2007 23:28

thanks for the info.

By dschlotz (***)

Date 12-29-2007 19:16

I have the Miller digital elite and love it. Since I got mine three more guys, in the shop, got them.

Go to the Miller web site and look up the warning about overhead welding. Basically it says that you need more than a welding hood on your body if you are going to weld in the overhead position, you know like leathers. The welding helmet protects the face. Hat gloves and other PPE for the rest of the body. The welding helmet will not catch fire and self destruct if one uses it in the overhead position.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-30-2007 17:26

Hi dschlotz!

The newer "Digital Elite" is totally different than the elite in that it has "X" mode which eliminates the potential for prematurely turning off the shade lense while welding in awkward or overhead positions through the use of electromagnetic sensors that are not included in the older "Elite" models. So unless one has the newer auto darkening technology included in the Miller "Digital Elite" series welding hood, one must heed to the safety warnings regarding the older "Elite" models.

With any out of position weld operations, it is always recommended to use PPE's like you mentioned regardless which type of welding hood one uses... However when it comes to most of the Auto darkening lens hoods, if the sensors are tricked into prematurely shutting off the lense while welding in an awkward or overhead position, then it's not the welding hood that will catch fire!!! It'll definitely be your eyes ,and one definitely cannot replace them!!! Talk about self destruct???

Respectfully,
Henry

Respectfully,
Henry

By dschlotz (***)

Date 12-31-2007 13:19

Hi Henry,

You raise an interesting point with premature lens shut off. I'm not sure how that works. I have been using auto darkening hoods for over ten years and have not had one go off on me except when I covered up the sensors. I have the new digital elite with four sensors and have not had the problem.

When I was learning to use the new technology auto darkening hoods I got a few bright lights through the lens when I covered sensors but no flash burn. The light spots lasted up to a minute. The other problem was during the use of carbon arc gouging. I had to learn to use the delay function so as to keep my lens in the dark state for a longer time so that the glow on the carbon wouldn't give me those same spots before my eyes.

It is my understanding that the auto darkening hoods have at least a #3 shade at the light state. I'm not going to speak for the industry as a whole but only from my own experience. I have always worn clear safety glasses with side shields under my hood. I have been flashed when I covered my sensors.
I have been flashed when I pulled the trigger with my hood up. I have been flashed by other people working near by. But in forty some years I have never had a flash burn. I have green eyes and light skin. My eye exams show no abnormalities that can not be attributed to my antiquity.

When used properly auto darkening technology is safe. With proper PPE it is more safe.

If you are interested you can do what I did and email Miller @contact us on their website. Ask them about the caution when overhead welding that they put on the Elite documentation. They will send you a response.

Dennis

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 01-01-2008 00:38

Hi Dennis!
I need to point out that I meant to write: "So unless one has the newer auto darkening technology included in the Miller "Digital Elite" series welding hood, one must heed to the safety warnings regarding the older auto-darkening lens models." Instead of mentioning "the older Elite models" so, I stand corrected Dennis!!!

I agree with most of what you are saying regarding the Miller digital Elite but, not all auto darkening hoods are alike and, I was'nt specifically referring to the Miller elite or digital elite's warning with respect to overhead welding... I was referring to the other brands out there that recommend not use welding overhead without the proper PPE equipment, and not to stand directly overhead like some of the less experienced welders tend to do. Now recommending something does'nt mean that it's not allowed... It just means that in order to be safe, and to prevent potential injury, the suggestion is not to attempt the aforementioned action especially without the use of any of the recommended PPE included in the action.

They - meaning the less quality minded, and less expensive auto-darkening lenses also point out that even with a shade 3 lens as a sort of back up protection when the sensor tells the lens to turn off, one can experience arc flash or even in some cases, greater damage to the eyes, and it all depends on the individual as far as the extent of the potential damge occurring... Just because you did not experience any long term effects on your eyes, does'nt mean that another totally different individual will be just as fortunate!!!

Look, I do'nt mean to challenge what Miller has to say about their "Digital Elite" welding hood but does'nt it seem strange that if they already were producing, and selling the "Elite" series without the "X" mode feature, then why all of a sudden come out with a newer one if the safety features which include the sensors for the regular, older, "Elite" series were adequate??? It's pretty logical to presume that they needed to come out with something better, and they did which is the Miller "Digital Elite"!!!

I mean - you even admitted that the sensors could be turned off if one inadvertantly blocked the sensors and that is my point because, the more sensors one has on their hood at different locations, the better protection one will have from the potential of premature lens shut off. There are many other brands of auto-darkening systems that do have specific recommendations/warnings/suggestions that are mainly written to cover their potential for liability law suits, much like the labels used by the pharmaceutical industries. I did try to weld overhead with my older "Elite" hood only to find that sometimes, premature lens shutoff would most definitely occurr

"X" mode works differently than conventional sensors so, premature lens shutoff would not be an issue when one is using the Miller "Digital Elite" series lens... Not so with other auto-darkening lens systems unless they're loaded with sensors all around the lens system & hood... Common sense tells me that the older Miller caution is referring to the need for adequate PPE protection, indirectly referring to the sensitivity of the sensors, and indirectly referring to the potential for premature lens shutoff... Just about every brand mentions about wearing the proper PPE when welding in the overhead or any awkward position that could potentially harm them... Remember that we only have one pair of eyes, and as of yet, they're not replaceable!!! I never mentioned that the hood would burn or melt when one is welding in the overhead position though. ;)

I still like my old 3M hardhat, fresh air, flip type lens helmet/hood system better because, the design was just rock solid, and gave you so much confidence that you were totally protected in comfort while welding, and gouging in any location and in any position. My Hornell Speedglass 9000X is pretty good but, not as solid as my older 3M.I do'nt know for sure but, I heard or read somewhere that the division of 3M that made the older fresh air helmet/hood systems is now part of Hornell???

Anywho, This has been a good discussion that I hope has been helpful to other folks interested in purchasing welding hoods with auto-darkening technology... Not all auto-darkening lens are made the same, so buyer beware!!! ;) Happy New Year Dennis, and the same goes to everyone else!!!

Respectfully,
Henry