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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Guided Bend testing equipement
- - By fit2inspect (**) Date 09-30-2013 21:46
My company is looking to purchase this guided bend and tensile tester. Has anyone have any experience with Sawyer MFG Company's 25-Ton Guided Bend and Tensile Tester  Model 273-25?
http://sawyermfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Guided-Bend-25-Ton.pdf

Does it have to match the depth of the saddle 5 1/4"  and the length of the plunger 6 3/4"  as in Fig 4.15? The die width and  plunger width matches 50ksi & under which is the material grade I'm using.
I would suspect that as long as those numbers match and the coupons bends in a U shape that should be enough.

Any thoughts or other brands I should be looking at?
Attachment: DiePlungerDetails.pdf - plunger and die detail (53k)
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 00:51
You have to ask the manufacturer. Provide the applicable welding standard and the material you will be testing.

Make sure the dimensions are per the applicable material grade and thickness of the test samples you are testing.

Al
Parent - - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-01-2013 11:17
I attached what the manufacturer sent me and it matches AWS standards for what I need for my material grade and thickness but its the depth of the plunger and die that doesn't match will that matter?
Attachment: fig4.15guidedbendtestJig.jpg - fig4.15 guided bend test jig (103k)
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 11:24
IMHO, that dimension won't matter. You will need to be aware of it when you cut your samples to make sure that it doesn't get hung up in the machine due to the plunger depth. IOW, If your strap is too long it may wrap around too far, so if it does, keep that in mind for the next one and just trim some material off each end to keep the weld centered under the plunger.
Parent - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-01-2013 11:41
Thanks John
You must have posted while I was typing.  thanks for the info.
Parent - - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-01-2013 11:38
Hay Al:
It took me a little while to get the attachments to stick but I got them and now I know how to work it. But for now you have to look at two different post to find what I'm talking about. ASW fig 4.15 I have circled the measurements I'm concerned about. Sayer's bender, their die and plunder is not as deep will that matter? All the rest of the measurement I need for my material matches.

I'm concerned that a 3rd party inspector will tell me that my bender doesn't match Figure 4.15 to the letter even though the measurements match for my base Metal Yield Strength.

I also attached the manufacture's product measurements on my first post. All's good there.

Anyone out there using this product?
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 12:09
The important dimension to be concerned about is using the correct plunger and die to achieve the correct bend radius for the strength material according to the chart below the picture in Fig 4.15. (ie. Dim A, Dim B, Dim C, and Dim D)
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 12:11
Check out Fig 4.17, it also shows the critical dimensions to be concerned about.
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 10-01-2013 15:20
Now how does the tenisle pull gage the work?  Is it a check valve that holds the pressure?  Accuracy?

Jordan
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2013 16:10
Hello Jordan, if I am understanding your question correctly you are referring to the point of yield where the test piece starts stretching and pulling apart. Generally in my experiences in this circumstance there is a needle that is zeroed against the pressure needle, as the pressure goes up the tattle-tale needle will be pushed by the gauge needle to it's maximum pressure reading, as the material yields and the pressure recedes while the test piece is yielding/stretching the static needle will remain and mark the greatest pressure achieved. Hope this explains it correctly and is what you are asking about. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 10-01-2013 16:15
Allan,

Yes, exactly my question.  Now is that a special in-line gage?  I have my own bend press and I use a 10,000 PSI pump that used to be used for compressing nail plates in large truss's.  I converted it to a dead man switch remote, and put a pressure gage on it.  I have been trying to think of a way i could do tenisle pulls with it but I know I would need the proper gage to maintain a reading.  The pump now like I said is just on a dead man so you have to hold the trigger the whole time for the bend plunger but it works great.

Jordan
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2013 17:11
Hello again Jordan, in a lot of instances this gauge is special and the numbering system on it is relative to the surface area of the cylinder that is used for the pulling and whether this surface area is measured on the rod or piston end, they are different(less for the rod end). Volume and pressure can be mathematically converted to pounds/tonnage of actual force. I'll give a simple example: I have a cylinder that has a 4" diameter piston and I am basing my caculations on the piston end, I determine the surface area of the piston by multiplying 4 x 3.1416 which = 12.5664. I then multiply this by the supplied pressure from my pump, maybe 2000 pounds, this = 25,132.8 pounds. If I wish to know the tons of force I then divide this by 2000 to find the amount of tonnage that this will lift/move. The answer is: 12.5664 tons. I hope this additionally answers some of your question. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 10-01-2013 19:54
Allan

Yes that works for me. I can just do the math if need be.  Now I need to come up with a puller!
Thanks

Jordan
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 12:44
The important features are that the plunger and die engage sufficiently to obtain the full 180 degree bend and that the diameter (dimension A) of the plunger and the die (Dimension D) are correct.

I have encountered several instances where the laboratory did not use the correct dies for the thickness and the yield strength of the material tested or they did not fully engage the plunger and die to obtain the full 180 degree bend. Realize that there will be a certain amount of "spring back" after withdrawing the plunger. For that reason, I always like to see the laboratory actually perform a bend to see how the technician performs the test.

Some contractors, labs as well, fail to verify they are using the correct bend dimension. When the bends are not correct, the entire welding program collapses. The PQR is invalidated, the WPS fails along with the PQR. Welder performance qualifications tested to the failed WPS are also are invalidated. If the WPS fails and the WPQ are invalid, the product produced using the WPS and the welders are subject to rejection by he customer.

A number of welding standards defer to AWS B4.0 for mechanical testing. My advice is that it would be a prudent move to review AWS B4.0 and include the information required by B4.0 in the test report.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 13:01
If a stronger material is tested with a plunger/die configuration for a lesser strength material, you essentially are over testing the specimen and it may even fracture vs bending because the bending radius is too tight for the strength of material. If you take note of the dimensions, they get larger(larger bend radius) as the strength goes up. However if it passes the bend test, I suppose one could argue that as well...
But the problem would arise if testing a lessor strength material with too large of a radius and then Al's senerio would unfold with everything collasping around the bend testing goof up.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-01-2013 13:06
Another point comes to mind; some aluminum alloys do not bend with a smooth radius when using a plunger and die. They respond best when a wrap around bending machine is used because the HAZ, which tends to be rather wide compared to the HAZ of steel, is softer than either the weld or unaffected base metal.  The consequence is that the bend concentrates in the HAZ and can fail without properly evaluating the weld deposit.

Al
Parent - - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-03-2013 17:53
I thank everyone for their input on this.
I checked with the manufacturer  the pressure gauge comes with  calibrated certs good for 1 year. I can get it re calibrated each year. The purchase includes crimping jaws for tensile tests as well as a set of die's good for AWS, D1.1, 50ksi & under. I can also purchase separately the larger dies for higher tensile strength steels. Their plunger is long enough, which a concern. My coupons are 8 1/4" long and they will bend nicely inside the saddle without hitting the top of the plunger.
At this point anything will be better than the way I'm doing it now. It's too embarrassing to tell you. But lets just say it takes a minim of 3 guys sometimes 4 if someone is watching to bend one coupon. Don't ask me how long it takes.:yell:
So this purchase will be a cheep relief to all concerned. I'll let you all know how it all worked out when the bender come in.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-03-2013 22:35
PICTURES!  We must have pictures.  I want to SEE this baby.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-06-2013 13:59 Edited 10-08-2013 01:34
Here you go a sweet little thing it is.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-06-2013 19:07
I built both my bending machines. The first one was a plunger and die type that uses a 12 ton hydraulic jack to operate the die and plunger. I've been using it for nearly thirty years and it still functions using just one person. The person on the jack handle is usually the welder that welded the test coupon.

The second unit is a wrap around type that I developed to test aluminum and samples that are not tested in a standard plunger and die. Nothing too fancy and it is entirely manually operated. It is small enough that I check it as baggage when flying from one location to the next.

Al
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-06-2013 22:30
I want to see pictures of the new one with you operating it, not whatever dinosaur you are currently using...LOL!! 

Anyway, thanks for the rundown of your situation.  Good luck.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By fit2inspect (**) Date 10-07-2013 17:17
Here is their web sit address 25 ton sorry I get a bit carried away our current bender has gotten me bent.
http://sawyermfg.com/index.php/weld-testing/

The 15 ton is a hand pump easy to carry.
Attachment: Guided-Bend-15-Ton.pdf (191k)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Guided Bend testing equipement

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