Under the new endorsement program, there are several open book examinations offered and you can take them as needed.

AWS currently offers open book examinations for API 1104, AWS D1.1, AWS D1.5, and there is one for railroad rolling stock, but I can't remember the number assigned to the welding standard.

There are several additional welding standards in the process of being approved for the open book examination.

Some of the other gentlemen here can give you better information on the finer points of the Authorized Inspector qualification requirements.

The CWeng has to pass the standard fundamentals examination required for any of the P.E. categories and then he has to pass the CWeng examination. The CWeng examination is similar to or the same as the PE examination given by the State of Ohio for welding engineering.

Best regards - Al

Let me start off by saying that this forum is a vast information of knowledge, and now the questions.

1) Is there an option to test to more than one code? For an example if I take the API-1104 and pass, can I also take the D1.1

2) My son is a Civil Engineer (yea, thats where all my welding money went), would he benifit with testing for a CWeng or better off with a CWI? ( he seen what I was getting in to and he was asking)

3) Has anyone gone to the ASME side ( inspector) with any of the insurance company's and what is involved , besides knowing the asme code

Thanks in advance

Tom

It may be useful for you to hear about my experience.  I have a bachelor's degree and a master degree in mechanical engineering.  Over the years I worked with some very talented welders and came to admire their abilities.  I realized that in their physical skills, those guys knew something I didn't.  To figure out just what that was, I studied welding in the evenings at a local junior college.  I liked what I learned there, so much so that I completed the couse requirements for an associates degree in welding technology (24 years after I got my masters degree in mechanical engineering!).  Along the way, I found that I had a lot of questions for my welding instructors that they couldn't answer - e.g., questions about the physics of the welding arc and the chemical action of shielding gases.  I sought and found those answers on my own and came to see that we engineers can know a few things about welding that welders don't - it turns out there can be a nice balance there. 

Anyway, after 4 years of hands-on training and self-study, I thought I would try to consolidate what I had learned about welding into some kind of tangible credential.  I am a consulting engineer with a professional engineer's license in several states.  I testify in court from time to time,  and so I am very aware of how the law does not regard a person as an engineer unless he or she has a P.E. license.  Consequently, I decided to pusue a P.E. license in welding engineering.  Since Ohio is the only state that offers a principles and practice exam in the field of welding engineering, that was the place to start.

It's worth stopping here momentarily to note a couple of things.  First, the AWS certified welding engineer certificate gives you no legal status as a welding engineer.  However, if you have passed the Ohio welding engineering exam and are a licensed P.E. in Ohio, you automaically qualify for the AWS CWEng certificate (after paying a fee).  Second, when I first started down this road, if you had passed Ohio's welding engineering exam and were a licensed P.E. in Ohio, you qualified for the International Welding Engineer certificate.  That is no longer the case, however, since the U.S. welding establishment and AWS is sorta cross-ways now with the international welding community for reasons that I don't completely understand.  Unfortunately, the window of opportunity for the IWE closed before I got my Ohio welding credential.

Getting back to Ohio now, when I called the Ohio professional engineering board to apply to take the welding engineering principles and practice exam, the board seemed at first mystified why I would want to do that, and when I persisted, they seemed increasely suspicious of my motives and then even a little hostile.  I never actually talked to the board of course, you talk to staff people in the board office when you call.  I guess requests like mine that are outside of the norm make their lives difficult.  I won't bore you with tales of the run-around I experienced, because everything is fine now, after the dust has settled, but it suffices to say that I had several unpleasant phone calls with Ohio board staff people who weren't as helpful as I think they should have been when I tried first to register for the test and then when I sought my grade 90 days after I took it.

I passed the Ohio principles and practice exam in welding engineering after first being required to register as a P.E. in Ohio based upon my prior registration in Texas after taking the principles and practice exam in mechanical engineering.  Ohio doesn't issues licenses in specific disciplines.  You can't tell by looking at the certificate which exam(s) the licensee has passed.  Based on my Ohio welding credential I got the AWS CWEng. credential also.

The statistical break down on the different credential follows: 
About 3 people per year take the Ohio principles and practice exam in welding engineering. 
The Ohio board does not know how many people have passed the exam.
There now are about 25 AWS CWEng.s (in the whole world!).

At the end of the day I think the Certified Welding Inspector (CWI) credential is better understood by most people in the U.S. welding indusrty.  I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Dave,

1.  I think in essence the misunderstanding is based on the notion that the AWS and CWB  are Equivalent.  They are not.  I believe the CWB is a government agency while the AWS is a private non profit organization.

1.a  The AWS provides no civil requirements whatsoever, whether in construction itelf or in the strucure of buissness and industry. AWS codes and standards are adopted voluntarily. And of course there are instances when government organizations or local municipalities or regions may choose to require AWS standards as part of their indepent policy. Some OSHA safety regulations come directly from AWS Z49.1 for example.

2.  In the U.S. what makes an engineer "qualified" pretty much depends on the particular employers self made job description.  This will be driven by competition.

3. From the AWS point of view (within the group of AWS certified personnel), only a Senior Certified Welding Inspector (SCWI) or a Certified Welding Engineer (CWEng) may be qualified to prepare/develop welding procedures. See AWS B5.1 2003 Table 1
http://files.aws.org/certification/docs/b5.1-03.pdf

4. The only procedures the AWS can be thought of approving are the procedures it sells.

5. Shop supervisors in the U.S. are not reqired to pass a certification exam. (The AWS has an exam for welding supervisor designation but it is not a government requirement) This government requirement is much akin to European Norms (EN's) or ISO specific Welding doccumentation.

6.  There are local and state requirements in some regions for welder qualification testing for specific types of work such as structural steel or pipe.. But these requirements are governed by state and local entities rather than national government.

Canada has a well thought out comprehensive system that makes for high quality and competence of personnel. It is also a hinderance for those folks who might want to work their way up the ladder from unskilled positions to management because those certifications are required (at great expense in formal training that cannot be substituted by experience in many cases) It is a model with deep socialist roots.

American Welding industry is driven by free market capitalisim. If a customer wants work fabricated to a specific code, and dictate that people building their stuff must  have certified personnel from top to bottom than contractors must invest in their personnel to compete for the business.

In my experience with the ISO and European Norms I've found alot of great stuff. Especially in the areas of ISO welder qualificaiton testing that AWS will undoubtedly move toward emulating because the notions are just that good.  On the other hand I see ISO and EN's as a University driven albatross sucking huge amounts of money that could be better invested in workers or shame on me for thinking this.. Profit.

There,  I bet thats more answer than you really wanted :)

You might take a look at the Certified Welding Engineer certification.  Details are available here: http://www.aws.org/w/a/certification/CWEng/

There is (or at least used to be) a Professional Engineer registration available in Ohio.

Cheers to the welders who passed the CWI with little technical knowledge and one weeks training . They are genius . They should be welding engineers hopefully after some formal training . How about challenging the CWEngg. If one week is enough for CWI then the time for  CWEngg would also be quite short?
We should encourage and motivate such brilliant characters
I guess in this part of the world ( Asia ) it is mostly QA/QC technicians or engineers who take the CWI exam. The various subjects covered are substantial although maybe at a basic or medium level and it can get too much to brush up and mug up everything in six or seven days . 
Anyway all the best

Here's a list of international agencies that may help you:

http://www.aws.org/w/a/certification/inter_contact.html

Here's some information about the certified welding engineer program:

http://www.aws.org/w/a/certification/CWEng/

I hope this helps!

- Christine

No problem. Same here.
Anywho, I think you may be right about the CWEng never being a CWI. I think it has to do with Graduate status. Inspectors are generally non graduates (at least n my experience), and therefore a CWI is a ligitimate way of verification. As for the CWEng, it would just be, (except for fellas like myself, although there are many), a supplement to a sheepskin already on the wall, and therefore not seen as being as critical tothe industry.

Hey Old Buddy!  No problems.  I understand what you're saying and, if I may, my feelings are that the CWI is a giant... a great program even if becoming a bit saturated.  The change is adding the "Senior" status to the CWI was far from addressing some of it's shortcomings.

The CWI Program has been in place since 1976 and blessed art thou who developed it! ;-)  All joking aside, it has added immensely to the professionalism of our trade.  That said, I tried very very hard, at all levels of AWS Senior Leadership and Committee levels to add an "International" CWI.  This was done in part because of communications I was having with the now current Chairman of IIW and CEO of the Welding Institute of Australia (WTIA).  He concurred with me running the concept past AWS to take the ball, AWS refused, IIW developed and now Australia is one of the ONLY countries in the world that has an International CWI Program... go figure.

The AWS CWEng Program is a great program but is suffering from lack of recognition... maybe time will heal, maybe not.  It will certainly never be a CWI...

Your comments are understood!  Thanks for letting me blather from my soap box for a while!

Happy Friday!!!

Never one to hesitate to admit when I'm wrong. I went back a took another look at the CWEng standard. I also recognize an inconsistency in my own statement i.e. comprehensieve yet a minute part of the industry.
So, I suppose to refine my position I could simply put it that as a self contained standard the CWEng is more comprehensive than I remembered. Although, as long as the CWI standard maintains a grip on certain subject matter the CWEng standard will face extreme difficulty in being recognized. And guys like myself seeking some 'Certified" recognition as a practicing welding engineer will be left empty handed. 
I suppose that clarifies my emotional involvment as well.

Sorry bout that. Hit the wrong key. Didn't even have a chance to correct my lousy spelling.
Anyway, I think the CWEng standard is facing an uphill battle in acceptance because of the CWI stranglehold. 'I' means inspection, and yet so much of the test is more engineering than inspection. It certainly doesn't hurt for inspectors to have this knowledge but its more your area than it is inspection.
And trust me, being an unedumicated individual as I am I would love nothing more than to have some Eng verification available. But it seems that it just isn't critical since so few recognize it as meaningful. And until the CWI lets go, I fear it will not change.

Sorry Jon,
I don't believe I phrased myself well. While I do think the CWEng standard is very intelligently designed, thorough, and comprehensive, I still feel that the CWI standard usurps much of what should actualy have been part of your responsibility. and that the standard oyu guys put together reflects a very minute portion of what welding engineers actually do on a daily basis inthe industry.
My diatribe was in no way an insult to you and your colleagues who I am sure worked very hard and conscientiously to arrive at your result. I just think that AWS's primary cash cow limited the type a subject matter avaialbe to you

js55, I find it hard to imagine me disagreeing with you, but your statement about the CWEng caught me off guard.  While I am NOT a CWEng, I was part of the Subcommittee that developed the qualification standard for the CWEng and I know the original Chair of that S/C fairly well (a brilliant guy).  It was my opinion, admitting I have never taken the test, that the required qualifications and body of knowledge for the CWEng were very, very comprehensive.  Input in the development of the qualification standard came from Ohio State, Lehigh, Ferris and a host of other well known schools, not to mention some of the best minds in our industry.  May I ask why you feel the CWI test leaves the CWEng test rather hollow?

Much of the CWI test, seems to me, infringes upon what really is Welding Engineering (this to me may be one instance). This leaves the CWEng test rather hollow, in my opinion. But the CWI test is AWS's shining star and cash cow, they have struggled long and hard to get it accepted, and they aren't likely to change it.

The fact that the person/top inspector is the chairmen of the local AWS district doesn't really matter.  It is just coincident.  I just have strong beliefs due to my education as a Welding Engineer that a welding procedure should be followed as it is stated and not to add techniques as long as they aren't specifically called out in the procedure as not permitted.  I have just heard that this Top inspector for these jobs is very stringent when it comes to welding.  He is known to find something wrong with with anything from weld symbols to insufficient joint detail on weld fit up.  I feel if he knew what practices the inspection company allowed for qualification of welders he wouldn't use them.  Which would reduce my competition by alot with the venture that I am trying to start  Can't the AWS revoke a CWI certification if an inspector isn't following procedures as follows?   I am trying to start up a weld inspection/weld repair/small Fab, in pursuant of my CWI/CWE in a few months and CWEng down the road.  I believe that with my education and with real life experience that I have gained since graduation in the weld/metal fabrication industry that I can succeed.  I see alot of weld procedure vagueness and procedures allowed for qualifications but don't actually pertain to the joint detail for the specific job.  Example doing a groove weld qualification for fillet welds.  I feel that alot of corners are be cut and I was taught when primary welds fail, tradgedies happen.  Follow a Qualified WPS exactly and a weld will pass.
Peace
WeldHaus

Thanks for all the feedback.  I can't remember if the welder's WPS specified if grinding was allowed.  I know when I took my certs for E7018 3Gup and 4G, for this company, the WPS I used was vague it didn't say anything about grinding being allowed.  The WPS just called out joint details and Eletrode, position,  the current allowed was a huge range, not specific. Travel speed wasn't listed or how many passes allowed.  I had no problem passing using only a wire wheel for interpass cleaning.  I do remember that the other employee failed his first attempt when he didn't grind, and on his second attempt he ground each pass till it didn't have any weld bead characteristics, it was smooth and shine the entire length, also he used a torch to re-heat before the next pass.  And I am 99% sure that the WPS didn't call out interpass heat treatments because of it being low carbon steel A-36.  The reason why I was questioning this is because I was thinking of informing the local AWS District Chairman of these actions, he is the main inspector for the company that the company I was employeed would do these contract jobs for.  The chairmen is knowin to be very picky about everything when it pertains to these jobs.  THere is a middle inspection company that does the witnessing/qualifying of welder certifications and joint fit-up inspection.  THe chairman is the final inspector, only sees end product, rarely comes to inspect during the fabrication process.  Do I have room to inform and question the actions that I witnessed as an empoyee.  I have quit the place I worked to start my own venture doing inspection and repairs and everything in between.  In the process of pursuing my CWI/CWE in the next few months and my CWEng eventually. Thanks for any info one can provide

Who offers a seminar for CWEng?

For a list of suggested references look at the AWS Certified Welding Engineer information http://www.aws.org/certification/CWEng/cwenginfo.pdf .
Add to the list the Army Technical Circular on Welding TC 9-237 availiable on the net, http://www.fortunecity.com/village/lind/247/weld_book/toc.htm

Can anyone suggest useful study guides for the CWEng. Exam?

Can anyone recommend any useful study guides for the CWEng. Exam? The sample questions online are somewhat helpful but there must be some more resources out there.

Contact Terry Perez Director, AWS Certification Operations tperez@aws.org . AWS grades the Ohio Welding PE exam.

As far as format goes it was essay style (I believe it is the only engineering discipline that still utilizes this format).

For a list of suggested references look at the AWS Certified Welding Engineer information http://www.aws.org/certification/CWEng/cwenginfo.pdf . I borrowed many of them from the library read them and copied information from them.

Copy charts, tables graphics, from the references, into a three ring binder, eliminate the fluff, just take the good stuff.

References books that I had included; AWS Handbooks, ASM Handbook on Welding & Brazing, ASM Desk Reference, Casti Blue Book and a dictionary. Keep it light weight.

I had indexed three ring binders on Welding Metallurgy, NonDestructive Examination, a binder of many WPSs (that I developed over the years, SMAW, GTAW, GMAW, FCAW, SAW, P1 to P91 material), Arc physics and power supplies and other welding methods.

Know your references and notes forwards and back, index them for quick reference. bring a snack and something to munch on during the exam (m & m's etc.) and pack a good lunch. It is a long arduous test.

Good Luck!

Register as a Mechanical Engineer in Ohio, very quick if you have a NCEES Record, if not go to www.ncees.org to find out about this. If you fit the model engineer criteria, id est ABET school, written NCEES exams FE and Mechanical Engineering, Then the Ohio Board can issue you a license in 1 day or so.

Once you have this send a written request to the Ohio Board stating you wish to take the Ohio Welding Engineer Exam, and a $25 (could change) check at least ninety (90) days before the exam.

Ohio will only issue you one license certificate, so when you pass the Welding Engineer Exam, you only get a letter from them that you passed, unless you have the highest score, then the Ohio Society of Professional Engineers awards you a certificate at an awards ceremony in Columbus.

AWS develop and grades the examination, you might be able to get more details from them. The test is arduous, essay style about 35 questions total.

For references to have start with the list recommended for the CWEng certification. Know your references forwards and back for quick reference. Index them.

Please advise on how to obtain the AWS CWeng certificate.
I am both European (EWE) and International Welding Engineer (IWE).

What I want to know is why AWS can't work with NCEES (http://www.ncees.org/) to establish a "Welding Engineer" exam for the Registered Professional Engineer? At one time the State of Ohio offered a P.E. exam for welding engineers, but I have not seen it listed recently. My only option, short of learning Civil or Mechanical Engineering, is to take the Metallurgical Engineer exam in order to obtain a license that would permit me to offer services as an "engineer" in my state (and most others). If I'm going to invest significant study time for a test as rigorous as the CWEng exam, it has to have significant value in return. The AWS CWEng is not recognized by the state in lieu of P.E. registration, nor is it likely to ever be. So, it has no real "value" other than one more piece of paper to hang on a wall or list on a resume. If AWS were to develop the study materials and refresher course for the P.E. exam and work with NCEES to develop exams, that would get more interest than the current AWS CWEng program. Look at the big picture AWS and consider the needs of the members, industry and the public, not just your own financial interest!

Marty

Is anyone out there a CWEng or know someone who is? I'm considering taking the test and I'd like to get as many opinions on how to prepare for the exam as possible.

Besides the list of references I can find no other direction on how to prepare. Ideas anyone?

Chris,
Thanks, it does help. You say "AWS CWEng may also get the IIW certification through a reciprocity agreement. This option will expire in 2003." Do you know exactly when in 2003 this will end? This will help me to decide when to take the exam.

If I miss this opportunity, are there any other avenues to take to receive this diploma? (i.e. Distance Learning, Classes at a University, Obtaining a Masters in Welding Engineering from Ohio State). Should I contact the IIW for this information?

Thanks again for your help.

Mark

It can be confusing since there are three bodies which now accredit welding engineers.

The International certification is through IIW.

The AWS Certified Welding Engineer is through the AWS Certification Department. Information may be found at http://www.aws.org/certification/CWEng/

The Professional Engineer is through the National Society of Professional Engineers.

Individuals who hold a P. E or AWS CWEng may also get the IIW certification through a reciprocity agreement. This option will expire in 2003.

I hope this helps.

Chris

The CWEng exam can be taken at any location where a CWI exam in being held. The schedule is listed at AWS.org.

There is no training seminar for CWEng at this time.

Dear All,

I have IWE as well as EWE diploma and seven years experience regarding manufacturing technologies. Could you please suggest me AWS accredited training center with training for CWI or CWEng exam for January or February.
Another questions should be:
If I have CWI certification then after several year I have to re-qualify this certification?
If I have CWEng (certified welding engineer, I have MSC degree in Mechanical Engineering) than I have to re-qualify myself again after several years?

Many thanks for quick reply

Regards

G. Burik
Hungary

• Only a licensed engineer may prepare, sign and seal, and submit engineering plans and drawings to a public authority for approval, or seal engineering work for public and private clients.

• Licensure for individuals who wish to pursue a career as a consulting engineer or a private practitioner is not something that is merely desirable; it is a legal requirement for those who are in responsible charge of work, be they principals or employees.

• Licensure for engineers in government has become increasingly significant. Many federal, state, and municipal agencies require that certain governmental engineering positions, particularly those considered higher level and responsible positions, be filled only by licensed professional engineers.

• With the growing complexity and the increasing diversity of modern construction processes and techniques, the engineer in construction must readily be able to communicate and exchange ideas and views with other licensed design engineers.

• For those pursuing careers in industry, licensure has recently taken on increased meaning with heightened public attention concerning product safety, environmental issues, and design defects. Employees have found it advantageous to identify to the courts and the public those employees who have met at least a minimum level of competence.

• State engineering boards are increasingly seeking and obtaining the authority to impose civil penalties against unlicensed individuals who unlawfully engage in the practice of engineering.

To find out what the limitations are in each state go to http://www.ncees.org/fundamentals/licenseboard.shtml and then to the states engineering board's page and read the rules and regulations.

Hope this information helps.
Rich

Richard M. Beldyk, PE, NSPE, CWEng, CPE
Professional Engineer - Delaware 6788, Maine 9987, Maryland 26594, Michigan 6201048734, Ohio 66691, Oklahoma 20523, Pennsylvania PE061240, Virginia 37138
Registered Member - International Registry of Professional Engineers - Certificate IR101
AWS Certified Welding Engineer - Certificate 0009Eng
AFE Certified Plant Engineer - Certificate 4582

I just received a quote for Professsional Liability Insurance for a $1MM/$2MM policy, about $5200 per year.


Some believe that a good rule of thumb is enough to cover all of your or your company's assets in event of a problem/lawsuit. This type of insurance is relatively cheap if your assets are less than $300K but you would probably be operating as a sole proprietor v. a C Corp. or similar. You would also have to check/compare the terms and conditions amongst prospective insurers. Operating your company under a Corporate veil in case anything should go wrong is absolutely necessary in this day and age, then only your company and it's assets can be sued v. your own. (Check with your attorney and accountant - for both legal and financial ramifications.)

Many of the projects that I have been associated with require a minimium of a $1 million policy, to be in force.

It seems there are more and more lawyers and less engineers in this society so at one point we all are probably going to get lawsuited, even the best. With all this said I enjoy and highly respect the engineering profession but sometimes wonder if it is better to be the designer/builder or the owner.

I hope this helps,
Richard M. Beldyk, PE, CWEng

The National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors
http://www.nationboard.org/ gives classes and administrates the exam. However, to become an AUTHORIZED inspector you must be employeed by one of the insurance/inspection companies, like THE HARTFORD STEAM BOILER INSPECTION AND INSURANCE CO.

I hope this information helps. Email me if you need more information.

Richard Beldyk, PE, CWEng, CPE

PE and CWEng ,working in Ohio

This is an informal poll.
1. How many SCWI's use this forum?
2. How many CWI's use this forum?
3. How many CWE's use this forum?
4. How many ACWI's use this forum?
5. I would like to pose the question for AWS CWEngineers or AWS certified NDE personnel, but I don't know of but a few in these categories, but feel free to respond to this post if your out there.
AWS Certified (in accordance with AWS QC3) welders are encouraged to respond as well.

PLEASE REPLY TO THIS POST ONLY.

Would like to get as many hits as possible on this subject and will explain on my next positng.

Try this:

http://www.aws.org/certification/cwenginfo.pdf

There is a schedule in it that coincides with the CWI exam dates.

Go to the AWS web site home page, click on Certification, and there is some info on the CWEng certification. There are 2 Adobe Acrobat documents available for viewing/download at the end of the article that have more info. One of them has a pretty extensive reading list to help you study for the exam and a breakdown of the areas covered on the exam. For your specific question, get a study guide for the EIT Exam at your local bookstore. It will review the basics for the math, physics, chemistry, strength of materials, fluid mechanics, heat, etc. areas of the exams.

Marty